DL: Hi, how's it going?

TS: Okay, thank you.

I've never actually interviewed anyone over the phone, so I hope you can hear me okay on speakerphone.

Okay.

So, Palindromes has been out for some time now, and I've been reading interviews and reviews over the past few months, and you've delved quite a bit into why you've made the film and what it means to you; so I'd like to ask you a little bit about how you made the film.

Sure.

Well, first of all - how did you get a film like this made in the moral climate we have now in this country? Can you talk about how it was financed?

Sure. The moral climate...well, it is what it is. I don't think that has much to do with getting the movie made or not made. I knew, though, going into it, that no studio or distributor associated with a studio would be able to release this film. And that turned out to be only too true, predictably. Even when there were people who - there were studio subsidiaries, let's say, that were very keen on distributing it, but they knew that they would not be able to. But as I've said, there are very many distributors to choose from that are independent.

The movie - I was the one that personally got it motion. I couldn't finance the whole thing. It was under a million, but still, that's a lot of money. And I was able to sell this movie before it was finished, from a foreign sales agent. But it's not very encouraging, I know, for the young filmmakers to hear this, but I think that if you have work that you don't imagine to be terribly marketable, it's all very uphill. It's uphill enough without it, even if it's perceived to be marketable! So I was fortunate to have some money that I could invest. It's not enough for a bigger apartment, but it was enough for a movie.

So you're passionate enough about making your films that you'd invest your own money in them? Because that's one of those 'rules' you always hear, about not putting your own money into your project, which I don't particularly agree with.

Well, I don't know, I can't speak about other people. I don't have any regrets. I managed to sell the film all over the world. It's turned out fine for me. I don't think I'd be a happier film if I had a bigger apartment, but I am satisfied with this movie. I am a filmmaker, and this is what I do. This is what matters to me. So if a bigger apartment is more important to you, then I can respect that, but...

You've spoken about how you like to see films that provoke you. Do you feel a responsibility to make provocative films, that you need to provide a balance to the mainstream by providing the sort of films you do?

Oh...I don't know, I don't know. I like to be provoked and stimulated and revitalized in some sense when I go to the movies. But there are different ways of provoking one. I don't know about any sense of balance, I'm just thinking about a movie with a story and characters that engage me. And I can just hope - all I can do is hope - that it has some value or meaning to others.

Palindromes has content that could make both liberals and conservatives angry. Have you received any responses from people that really surprised you? Has anyone whom you wouldn't have expected wholeheartedly loved it?

You know it's - I don't know. I don't really ever expect anyone, I don't expect people to love what I do, anymore than I expect them to hate it. But there you have it: people do have strong responses, and certainly it doesn't give me pleasure to cause pain to others, that they should feel so hostile or angry with what I do. But it's I guess part of the price I pay, of engaging with this kind of material the way that I do.

The peculiar irony in making making this movie is that in some sense, I suppose I really thought it was my most - it was a tender, heartbreaking movie. When I learned that it wasn't being taken that way by many people, I initially said, "oh, I see." The effect for some people is very different from what I had imagined. All I can say is that I'm as proud of this as anything else I've done, and you put something out there and you just never know. You never know. With all my movies, I'm always surprised.

I wrote in my review that the film has an oddly comforting feel to it - that warmth you talk of is definitely there, and that's one of the more wonderful things about the movie.

Well thank you. I mean, there is a moral gravity here, there is a moral censor. But this is not a dogmatic film. That's perhaps one of the frustrations for some people, that it doesn't have any interest in proclaiming itself pro-choice, or pro-life for that matter. I'm always somewhat surprised that people even wonder where I stand on this issue, but look, I said I was pro-choice, no one who is pro-life would even come see the movie.

I've heard you speak about how much you hate, or are worn out, by the production process itself. Is there a specific point where you feel it's worth it - like when you show it to an audience for the first time - or is the process itself completely self-validating for you, in spite of its difficulty?

Well, the good thing about it is that it's a physical ordeal, and like physical pain, once it's over it's over. I don't know about it being validated so much as it just being something that's part and parcel with the process. Some people are better cut out for it than others.

Ingmar Bergman talked (in the Fanny And Alexander documentary) about how he knew it was time to quit making films, because he knew it was going to kill him or - even worse - that he was going to start making inferior films. Do you find that you have a continual drive to make films, even though you know how difficult it's going to be?

I don't know. I don't know. I'm always amazed that I even get it together to make another movie. I never can talk of the future. I have something in mind that I would like to do, but who knows. I take it one at a time, and then I look back and say "oh, gee, look what I did. I didn't know I had it in me to do this."

So do you have a project actually in the works, or are you still focusing most of your energies on Palindromes?

Well, I have something I have in mind...but it's the one thing I can't talk about, really.

I'm down to my last question. Do you have any advice for filmmakers struggling to make films that are so contrary to mainstream ideals - or at least what is generally accepted as mainstream?

Well...it requires tenacity. The minute you throw in the cards, it's over, and no one cares if you make a movie or not. So if you're going to put yourself through it, you have to know that it's important enough to you to live with. I can say that on the plus side, it's a great time to be a young aspiring filmmaker, because technology has made it possible in ways it never has been before. And there are all these festivals out there, platforms and ways of getting your movie shown. The bar has been raised, but I think that's a good thing. And also, you don't have to live in New York or LA, which is a great thing. You can live wherever you like, and in a sense, you're only limited by your imagination - and, of course, by your wallet.

But if you're savvy enough, you can certainly go very far.

Well, that about wraps it up. Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me, Todd.

It was my pleasure.